In Irelands biggest ever recession Sinn Fein becomes very reactionary on drugs

by still a republican Mon Jun 14, 2010 22:51

what exactly is an anarchist republican?

by sean Tue Jun 15, 2010 09:48

i have to say i agree with the writer. as a former sinn fein voter this is an attack on peope's civil liberties. secondly , there is much irony in the fact that sinn fein claim to be an irish republican party yet they sit in stormont helping to administrate part of the british commmonwealth.

by Mike Novack Tue Jun 15, 2010 22:40

Not right to call this hypocricy.

There is NO good reason to assume correlation between progressive positions on economic issues and progressive positions on social issues. Yes of course nice when you can get correlation. But it's not really inconsistent for people to be progressive on economic issues but conservative/reactionary on social issues or conservative/reactionary on economic issues but extremely progressive on the social issues.

Quite common over here (the latter) but we do sometimes see the former. Nasty because it forces you to choose which sorts of issues most important at the moment BUT you don't have some right not to be forced to do so. We only each get to decide our own positions; other people get to decide theirs.

by sean Wed Jun 16, 2010 09:59

the point is surely that sinn fein is not progessive on national, social or economic issues. they are a totalitarian establishment party

by Mike Novack Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:41

That SF might be conservative on social issues could be missing the point.; might be asking the wrong question. Democracy and the parties organizing within it depends upon what combination of attitudes exist among "the people". So the right question to ask instead is whehter there exists among the Irish people a substantial block that IS progressive on national, economic, and social issues (on all of these together).

If not, you have no reason to complain that there isn't a party representing this interest group. as in that case any such party would be very small/ineffective.

Look, the speicific example here was "soft drugs". Try asking the question in reverse. Among all those in favor of ending "prohibition" do you expect ANY correlation with whether they are also pro socialist vs pro capitalist? Pro green vs pro orange?

by Politician. Wed Jun 16, 2010 18:07

"That SF might be conservative on social issues could be missing the point."

No it is not missing the point.

Sinn Fein have been a Right Wing Catholic reactionary party for almost four decades.

They are about as Left Wing as the reactionary Right Winger Ian Paisley.

They fit in well in government with Ian Paisley.

by observer Thu Jun 17, 2010 09:37

I suppose to give Sinn Fein credit, they dont claim to be a socialist party they are nationalist party especially in the north. They dont lead public opinion they follow it mainly and it is seldom they come up with any new social policy or new left of centre policies. I think most of their supporters just like most Irish people dont think or care too much about the current recession, they think it will be over and then things will get back to normal.

by doc Mon Jun 21, 2010 02:40

head shops as they stand are a health hazard. there is no quality control on the substances being sold. fine if people want to get stoned i can live with that and in that regard maybe the law should be changed but as it stands its posible for a head shop to sell poison with out consequences. its the latter line that SF are argueing against head shops. its not unreasonable. put the substances there selling under quality control. get a standard. then have another debate on legalised highs.

by cross border shopper Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:30

SF are too late with their prohibition crusade. I see the Fianna Fail green government is in the process of bringing in new legislation to ban head shops from holy Ireland. But like abortion and other social issues that are too hot to handle, there is a solution and its an Irish solution to an Irish problem. The solution like all solutions in Ireland involves taking a plane to more sensible or liberal jurisdictions. Get out of this backward priest and politican ridden nation that still doffs its cap and goes down on bended knees to the priest or gombeen politican and has kneejerk solutions like banning things they dont like from this green utopia where all problems can be swept under the carpet or exported!

by Fine Gael Member Tue Jun 22, 2010 13:24

Finally after months of inaction and talk this government has finally acted in the defense of law and order in this state. They have finally brought in strong laws that will force all head shops to close. They need to be totally smashed and driven underground, and no respite should be given to anyone running or working in such as shop. It is totally immoral for the state to be accepting tax from such establishments and workers as it gives them a kind of legitimacy and allows a debate to take place on an issue where no debate must be tolerated or allowed. Out of 102 head shops more than 50 are already closed. Now this government needs to follow up and close down lap dancing clubs and other dens of iniquity. It is well past time that they banned playboy from newsagents. All of these things help create the conditions for a counter culture as happened in other countries during the 60s. This would be a disaster that this country does not need.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Jun 22, 2010 14:14

My teens coincided with the sixties, so I took a ramble down the chemical corridors at a time when the mega-crims didn't have quite the grip they have now, thanks largely to the boneheaded laws that reflect the church's forbidden-fruit attitude to anything that frightens the holy fathers, (alternative spiritual explorations to their franchise, women, sexuality, democracy etc.). I also lived in Netherlands for a couple of years, and reckon their policies are more pragmatic and evidenced based than our knee-jerks.No surprise that SF fit the Oirish strait-lace on this issue, they are steeped in the Romish fears and reactionary unfocused crowd-think.Even the usually more rational brits caved in on the weed front when Brown's cabinet played the populist card and upgraded cannabis classification for fear of tabloid terrorist rants that would further damage their sinking ship.
Being a Paddy it took me to the seventies to open the chemistry set beyond alcohol, and by then I had looked into the dangers and differences. Which meant that when I told my own kids to be careful, and which drugs were more dangerous they listened a lot more than some of my contemporaries' kids who got the usual useless 'just say no' answer. I filled my kids in early, before they asked. Education has to be the first line of defence.But first educate them SFers, before they get in and do more damage with escalating the Nancy Regan moral crusade recipe for youthful curiosity. Most of the crime asociated with drugs stems from the prohibition driving the criminality. The vitners, like the church have a vested interest in keeping us ignorant. With developments in molecular manipulation the urgency of scientific education on this issue grows.If any teachers are browsing this issue they could do us all a favour and take it up with their unions.Sex education finally got past the vatican keeper, this issue needs to also.

by Macdoc Sun Jun 27, 2010 23:15

Let's all just get high then and forget about everything. As one school teacher in South Park once said, "Drugs are bad, mmmmm kay" He pretty much summed it up. While we can argue about the health dangers of illegal or legal highs and the attitudes of SF of Fianna Fail to drugs, bear in mind the many lives destroyed by drugs. Drugs don't just appear on the shop shelf, much like Coca Cola just doesn't appear there either. From the beginning of its production right up to the users purchase, it's left an awful trail of destruction in its wake. If you guys feel liberated enough to ingest some unknown poisons without any standards, then go ahead, so long as it affects no one else. Remember, when drugs come in the door, society goes out the window!

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:08

Thats when society went out the window. And me thinking it hung around till maggie assured it there was no such thing as.
If you want 'trails of destruction' should you not start with the great trailblazer of the firewater.Ask American native peoples, or Inuit, or Australian Aboriginals, or the African societies what chemical does most damage to their societies.Or drop in to your local A&E some weekend and check the collateral damage.Your remark about 'unknown poisons without any standards' perfectly makes the case for regulation and education rather than ignorant prohibition.
It was prohibition gave the US into the hands of the various mafias(and Murphias) that have defenestrated its society.The empire builders of the moral right that introduced the Volstead Act in 1920 suddenly found themselves on the verge of redundancy when the US Congress woke to the damage done and revoked it in 1933, so they swung their righteousness onto the Marijuana, which had the advantage of association mostly with Mexican and Black users and those nuts who listened to that decadent jazz and were lowering the moral tone of the neighbourhood.
Prohibition made the ganglords enough moolah to bribe their way throughout the US polity, and ensures the same lads reap mega-bucks from controlling the global trade in under-the-counter self-remediation.If we can apply medical sense to licencing whiskey to minimise the damage of poteen of methylated 'poisons without any standards' we should be able to extend the logic.Prohibition profits the thugs, and targets the weak.