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A stunning 30k minimum at Cork protest marchSome say more like 50K
Marchers Gather for Protest
The weather was good and the march got under way promptly at 12. Traffic into the city had been very heavy so it was obvious there was going to be a good turnout but nobody expected so many to come. Related Links: 150 TCD students protest against Batt O’Keeffe, SU President welcomes him! | Public Meeting: Stand up Against the Cuts | Education on Indymedia.ie
The front of the march caught up with its own tail back at the starting point after marching a mile or so around the city. It started at Grand Parade, proceeded down the South Mall and around by Parnell Place, back up Merchant's Quay then into Patrick Street - where it had to be halted for a while because it had to wait for the last marchers to begin their walk around - and eventually back around to the full length of the Grand Parade to where it began. Stewards and others present say there was easily 30-35K there and some were insisting that it was more like 50K. RTE is wittering about 'between 20-25K' while the poor old Evening Echo in Cork who had obviously taken a gamble with an early edition cheerfully claimed 'More than 5,000 marched in Cork today'.
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Sunday November 23, 2008 15:24
by Miriam
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Comments (28 of 28)
Jump To Comment: 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1Irish Examiner still silent on their 'latest' news online as at 15.52 Sat 6th:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/ireland/
In a reversal of earlier alleged RTE reports of 60K on radio - RTE.ie going for the 40K figure now, no pictures or detailed reports for this massive public protest:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1206/education.html
'Over 40K' says Irish Times now -
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1206/...6.htm
Irish Times anticipating a large turnout but stresses the Minister is not for turning:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1206/...6.htm
Fianna Fail will rue the day the ignored the will of the people.
The last of the educatin cuts protest marches is to take place on Saturday next, 6th December.
Parnell Square from 12.00 - march will move off at 1.00pm and ends at Merrion Square.
Full details here on INTO website, including video footage of other marches:
http://www.into.ie/ROI/
There were 8K in Donegal town last Saturday. This march isn't just about education - it's about the punitive measures being taken against the mass of people - entirely innocent of the greed and government incompetence which they are now being asked to pay for while those responsible escape almost untouched. You may not be directly affected by education cuts but if you are concerned to protect yourself or your community from similar victimisation and abuse then you should also attend this march: what is happening to education can happen to any other part of the public sector.
Speech by Pat Hurley, ASTI President at The Protest against 2009 Education Cuts in Cork
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 22ND 2008
I have a message for the Minister for Education: Parents, teachers, and school managers are united in their opposition to these cuts. Today is about our children, our young people.
When it comes to spending on education for our children and young people, Ireland is at the bottom or the OECD league.
This Government is failing to prioritise its young people. Young people are our future. Education is the future.
We have cash-strapped schools with large class sizes and inadequate resources. Year after year parents and teachers listen to politicians talk about the importance of education and the need to resource it. Year after year parents are and teachers are disappointed by the lack of progress in relation to the funding of our schools.
Is it any wonder that parents, teachers and school communities are saying NO to this Budget's attack on education?
· Increasing the pupil-teacher ratio means bigger classes. Every school and every pupil will be affected by this.
· Individual schools have contacted the ASTI to say they will loose anything from 2 to 5 qualified capable teachers next year.
· Changes to substitution in schools will cause chaos this January.
· Cutting the Traveller grant and English language tuition is a direct attack on disadvantaged, vulnerable and marginalised children.
· These cutbacks in education will affect the future life chances of our young people.
· They will result in a poorer educational experience. They will affect student attainment.
· They will prolong economic recession.
They say if something isn't broken why fix it. You could say if something isn't broken, don't try to break it. These cuts attack schools which are working. They attack effective programmes such as Transition Year, they attack the holistic education we give to our young people, they attack our efforts to create inclusive schools.
Parents and teachers know what these cuts will do to our schools. That is why we are here today. We will not see our children and our young people being treated as soft targets.
Tomeile,
You say: "Mark’s letter to Mr Dolan at the Irish Examiner says that there can be no such thing as objectivity and that Robert Fisk and John Pilger deride the idea of objectivity. Where is the evidence for that ,where do either of these writers deride the idea of objectivity?"
To answer you question(s):
1) Have a read of the 'Preface' of Fisk's collection of essays/articles The Age of the Warrior. On page xiv he says, "Anger is a ferocious creature. Journalists are supposed to avoid this nightmare animal, to observe this beast with 'objective' eyes. A reporter's supposed lack of 'bias' - which, I suspect, is now the great sickness of our Western press and television - has become the antidote to personal feeling, the excuse for all of us to avoid the truth." (My reading of this is that if we try/pretend to be objective/unbiased we are being untruthful, or, at least, avoiding the truth (perhaps in some postmodern sense).)
2) Have a read of the essay 'A Question of Balance' by John Pilger, in his wonderful collection, Hereos. In this, he says, "I also learned that my ordinary mortal's infallibility did not change for the better when I stood in front of a television camera. I did not ascend to some nirvana of neutrality; and it seemed to me that all any journalist could do was to seek truthfully to report and interpret events and experience, rather than believe that attaining the whole truth was possible. [...] Possessing highly professional talent and the illusion of impartiality, as well as occasional dissenting programmes, 'public service broadcasting' has become a finely crafted instrument of state propaganda." (My reading of this is that Pilger accepts his biased/non-neutral position, accepts the baggage that comes with the societal values (etc.) that we have, but nonetheless does the best he can, given the circumstances he/we find ourselves in.)
You say: "Language is not "by its very nature subjective" as Mark maintained in his letter to the Examiner. As a teacher he should know..."
To reply:
Language is subjective. Take your comment for example; it is a subjective comment (i.e. the idea that language is not subjective). I tell my students every day, when we are studying, for example, poetry, that the poet has chosen specific words to make us feel a specific way about a specific topic. If we look at another poem with the same theme we can come to different conclusions about the theme (and realise again that the poet has chosen specific (subjective) words/phrases/images to make us feel that way). The same is true of drama, fiction, film, political language, journalism - we can only use the language that we have at the time of using it and this makes it subjective.
You are right that the comments on this thread (including my own) have concerned themselves more with the media's lack of coverage of the "Education Cuts Protest". Perhaps you can rectify this by a) adding something to the debate, and/or b) doing a 'proper' coverage of the protest in Dublin (or Donegal, or wherever else).
Regards,
Mark Conroy.
You really don't get it do you? I don't for one moment claim my report was the whole of all that could or should have been reported. As a citizen journalist I reported all that I could in the time that I had availbe to do it. I didn't have recording equipment withe me. I assumed/hoped others would add their experiences - as some did with good pictures etc.
Were you there? If so, can you add anything to the initial report I made? As Indymedia stalwarts have often said to me 'don't criticise the media, BE the media'. This is a collective effort - please do any research you have time for/feel inclined to do and add to the sum of our knowledge by posting here. I hope, in the final analysis, that it was better to have brought the issue to attention than not to have bothered at all.
Mark’s letter to Mr Dolan at the Irish Examiner says that there can be no such thing as objectivity and that Robert Fisk and John Pilger deride the idea of objectivity. Where is the evidence for that ,where do either of these writers deride the idea of objectivity ? Both those journalists back up what they say with evidence : that’s what makes their reports objective and credible . Fisk , for example , when he was still able to operate with a degree of security in Baghdad , used to regularly visit the city’s morgue to see the true extent of the carnage that war had brought to the citizens of Iraq , while the majority of western reporters were content to file stories from the protected Green Zone or embed with the US army . Taking sides against oppression is not unobjective as Mark asserts . The playwright Harold Pinter wrote this about John Pilger , “ He unearths, with steely attention to facts, the filthy truth, and tells it as it is” .That’s objective.
Language is not "by its very nature subjective" as Mark maintained in his letter to the Examiner . As a teacher he should know that language doesn’t spring spontaneously from individuals . It is social , collabarative and purposeful and something that has to be learnt and taught . The same goes for the propagation of language through media . All the corporate press serve a function within society which is at the end of the day to support capitalism . But within any news office there has to be collaboration ,training and planning . To say that Miriam’s report was inadequate should be self evident ,but if it isn’t , how do we account for the fact that the comments about the march on this site -which is a news site - have concerned themselves so much with the lack of coverage for the march in the corporate press ? Writers , video/photographers researchers etc, should get together to plan and collaborate on reporting events like the forthcoming demo in Dublin . That isn’t against indymedia.ie editorial guidelines surely .
Am I right in saying that the Minister for Education, Batt O'Keefe, TD was on the radio/television a couple of days ago and he didn't know what the LCA was, despite going to axe funding for it?
Mr O'Keefe, it's the Leaving Certificate Applied course, a very valuable course for those who do not wish to sit the Leaving Certificate standard course, and arguably a much more progressive course.
Mark.
At about mid-day to day there was still no mention of the protest on the online version. The page 4 story in the print edition has since been added, down at the bottom of the list at this link:
[url=http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/sectio...1.asp]20k protest[/url]
It's questionable that the Examiner should headline the march as being 20K strong when even the Garda called it at 25K on the day! The Examiner must have had a reporter there. It's all very well for the Deputy Editor to claim the paper is balanced on this issue. It has undeniably emphasised what it calls the 'need for public sector reform' in recent weeks and its relegation of the enormous march to a mere page 4 report - with only belated mention on the online edition today is petty clear evidence of some sort of agenda.
The villification of teachers continues tonight with reports on RTE news of a new scheme for tackling under-performing teachers. I'm sure I'm not the only person to wonder why this issue is considered urgent right now. What about under-performing bankers, stockbrokers and politicians?
[Tomeile - feel free to add to the report here in any way you can. It will be much appreciated I'm sure. That's what the comments facility is for, after all.]]
More images on http://www.flickr.com/photos/hilaryaq/ , contact me for high res copies if anyone needs them!!
Pardon me Mr Stand In Editor but how can you have the neck to state the ''facts as you see fit ''
The chap is telling the truth or have you forgotten how to read ?
I never heard a word from The Examiner when i emailed your Editorial Office with certain information about ''Collaborative Law '' and certain antics
which were ongoing within .
Selective Reporting with certain ''conditions attached '' is your Michael Mouse of Journalism ethics i am sad to Say .
Here is the response of the Irish Examiner to my email (a copy/paste of Miriam's). Following that is my reply to their response.
_____________________Irish Examiner's response:_____________________
Hello Mark,
I am responding on the editor's behalf as he is on a few days leave.
First of all thank you for your note.
I would ask you to note, firstly, that on page four of today's newspaper (Monday, November 24) - the first available edition following the march - we carried three pictures and a sizeable report on the protest.
More worrying than your mistaken assertion that we failed to cover the march is a suggestion in your note that "there could be no better example of how complicit Irish media are in controlling the public agenda when it suits their political stance - in your case a persistently critical line on public service workers and on the teaching profession in particular - as if they were the people responsible for the financial crisis."
On behalf of all the staff of the Irish Examiner I feel compelled to point out that we are a newspaper who pride ourselves on delivering news in an objective fashion, on behalf and for the ordinary people of Ireland and with fear nor favour to anyone.
Examples can always be cherry picked and taken out of context to suggest we are working to some sort of political agenda. Rest assured we are not.
You can also rest assured of our continued commitment to delivering on the aims set out above despite suggestions, no matter where they originate or how mistaken, to the contrary.
Many regards
Dolan O'Hagan
Executive Editor
______________________ My response to the Irish Examiner's _____________________
Dolan,
Thank you for you polite, albeit patronising and condescending, response.
I am amazed that the editor(s) at the Irish Examiner did not find that the biggest protest Cork has seen in recent memory should make it to the frontpage; a protest of this size anywhere in Ireland is a phenomenon. Certainly, the only protest in my memory that was bigger was the 100,000 strong anti-war one on Feb. 15th 2003. The Irish Examiner could only find this weekend's protest merited page 4 of the print edition. What news over the weekend was more important? What was the bigger story?
Added to that, I fail to find mention of the protest on your website (I hope this is an oversight on my part), but I can see that you found space on your website's frontpage under your "Main Topcis" section for pieces on Boy George, Paris Hilton, Heath Ledger, and Amy Winehouse. Are these the "ordinary people" of Ireland that you speak of?
As for your claim that the Irish Examiner is an organ that "pride ourselves on delivering news in an objective fashion", you really should give up on that. There is no such thing as objectivity (nor can there be) - language by its very nature is subjective. You really should acquaint yourself with the great journalists of our times (Robert Fisk and John Pilger to name but two) who deride the idea of objectivity, and instead accept that as human beings we really should, must, take sides; we have a duty not to couch our presumptions and assumptions (whatever class(s) they belong to) behind a veil of professed objectivity. Perhaps that is part of the problem with journalism: there are too many journalists in the game, and not enough experts.
Regards,
Mark Conroy.
With what is Indymedia expected to do this Tomeile? The 95 Euros so far raised in the server campaign so far?
Fair dues to Miriam and others for their reportage.
Tomeile,
As you know yourself, indymedia.ie's content is 100% user generated. Perhaps you could include yourself in the team to work on December 6th's protest - start counting, videoing, recording, writing.
Mark.
The Indymedia report from Miriam Cotton was clearly inadequate - no reports of the contents of the speeches or list of who was on the platform ,no interviews with marchers or organizers , reliance on the gardai for estimation of the crowd . It’s not good enough to keep criticizing the Irish corporate media for their coverage of issues that challenge the corporate agenda . The left itself should be taking responsibility for reporting these activities .
All praise to Miriam , without her report we may have heard nothing about this historic march at all .But she can’t be expected to be a one person news agency . What is needed is a reporting team to cover events like this : reporters , interviewers , video/photographers , crowd counters , speech transcribers etc . Indymedia contributors should take the initiative of putting at least one such reporting team in place for the December 6 demo.
As an Irish person abroad, I would like to thank all those who have taken to the streets in Protest at the proposed cuts. It is really heartwarming to see that so many people care so much for the country. I was amazed to read that so many people turned up to the march in Cork. Personally, I think this is great for 2 reasons:
1 So many people standing up for what is right, and
2 This sends a clear message to the Government that there are people outside of Dublin whose needs must be met.
I'm surprised that the ASTI had a speaker because they told me in no uncertain terms a number of weeks ago that they are not and will not be supporting this series of protests (except for the one in Dublin). Perhaps my phone call made some difference to them.
Also, I asked was I allowed to attend, and was told as a member of the public that I could. I asked could I bring an ASTI banner, and after a number of phone calls it was decided that I could.
I questioned were the ASTI more interested in brand recognition, and was this why they were not officially endorsing the protest, preferring to have their own, but I was told no (of course).
Well done again, Miriam.
Mark.
ASTI had a speaker on the platform on Saturday, whose name I didn't catch - the public address system was a bit muffled at times. But there were no banners from ASTI - it was all INTO stuff.
Apparently the Examiner have a report on page 4 of the print version - my letter was sent after checking the online version earlier this morning and there was no mention there - still none now - ditto the Irish Times. It's appalling.
Either way, page 4 is still a major snub. This should have been front page headline stuff with supporting commentary and interviews. If this is indicative of how the media are going to behave about attacks on the public sector then people might choose to revisit their newspaper loyalties and relocate them to internet alternatives.
The media silence is intended to make people feel that protest is futile. I wonder if the unions will begin to think strike action might become an imperative if the cuts are to stand a chance of being reversed in the face of the media/government united front.
Miriam,
Well done on this report and well done on your two emails to RTE.ie and the Irish Examiner, respectively (and, of course, continued success with MediaBite.org). Hopefully they will get back to you in a positive manner and rectify their deafening silence.
On another related matter, I have to say SHAME (with capital letters) to the ASTI for not endorsing this march. I have contacted the ASTI (of which I am a member) to ask why they have not endorsed the march in Galway, Tullamore, Cork (but will endorse the one in Dublin)? Their response was that it is an INTO march (well done to the INTO for this), but I also asked should we not be supporting the INTO since we are all in the same sinking ship. The ASTI have said that they will be performing their own actions. I have told them that the rank and file members of the ASTI (myself and my colleagues) are feeling very alienated from the hierarchy of ASTI. Again, shame on the ASTI for not 1) endorsing this march, 2) supporting it, and 3) asking all ASTI members to do their best to attend it.
Well done again, Miriam. I must send RTE.ie and the Irish Examiner an email now.
Regards,
Mark Conroy.
The Irish Examiner, headquartered in Cork and the national newspaper of the People's Republic of Cork issues a monumental snub to its own community:
"Dear Sir
A minimum of 25K people march in the largest expression of public
protest seen in decades in Ireland and the Irish Examiner sees fit not
to make even one mention of it in its next edition. How can this be
justified given the blanket coverage of the 14K who marched in Dublin
just a few weeks ago? Considering the protest at education cuts came
within feet of your front door in Cork City, it can hardly be that
there was difficulty getting a journalist to cover the event. There
could be no better example of how complicit Irish media are in
controlling the public agenda when it suits their political stance -
in your case a persistently critical line on public service workers
and on the teaching profession in particular - as if they were the
people responsible for the financial crisis. For shame.
Yours sincerely
Miriam Cotton"
"Dear Joe Zefran
I hope you are well.
I'm writing to challenge you publicly about the insultingly muted
report on RTE.ie about the massive protest which took place in Cork
yesterday. Your online report states that the march was attended by
between 20-25K people. The gardai at the scene declared that there
were 25K people present. Why is that figure brought into question
in RTE's report? Many organisers believed there were at least 30K
people present - while others thought the number much higher again -
possibly even as much as 50K. The march was almost a mile in length,
with the front catching up with the last of the marchers back at the
starting point. Given the media attention focused on the much smaller
14K pensioner march in Dublin a few weeks ago, I wonder why this march
is being treated so unequally by RTE? You quote Minister Batt O'
Keeffe, who was not present, but make no mention of the many issues
raised by several speakers including INTO General Secretary, John Carr
and its President, Declan Kelleher. Why are there no quotes from them
or the other speakers? Among the many effects of the cuts explained
to those present at the march, the anticipated loss of 1,200 of
teachers in schools will result in the loss of more than 100K teaching
periods. An appropriately respectful and adequate report from the
national broadcaster should have included a summary of these sorts of
concerns.
This was the largest public protest in several decades and RTE.ie are
effectively snubbing it.
Yours sincerely
Miriam Cotton
MediaBite"
After the turnout in Cork today I hope that people will keep the pressure on not only the politicians but the unions as well. I must say that from a personal opinion I have been disappointed in the way that the unions have sided with the bosses in accepting the crumbs from the table on many occasions in the last decade or so. The unions should be held equally accountable in the current climate of cutbacks to Education and Health. If the unions actually fought for the people they supposedly represent and stopped cosying up to their new friends in big business and government then we would not be in this position of children having to take to the streets to defend what is rightfully theirs. If this does not happen, then it is time for people to join independent unions or fight for the removal of current union bosses and undemocratic structures within them.
few more pics from Cork
keeping an eye on things
Maybe changing the names to Bank, ie Clashmore National Bank Dungarvan, then the politicians would have been throwing money at them in the streets today.
Some more photos of today's Cork demo.
Some shots of todays huge education cuts demo in Cork city centre
Some of the crowd in the Grand Parade
Another scene from Grand Parade
Pic 3 - more banners
Pic 4
Pic 5
... a massive turnout and a resoundlng 'No To The Cuts'!
Marchers gather for protest on Grand Parade
Front of march on Patrick Street
Learn to add!
At the rally afterwards
"Up to 25,000 people have taken to the streets of Cork today, to protest against education cutbacks in the budget.
Parents, teachers and unions took part in the demonstration, to highlight their concerns over rising class sizes and staff cuts.
Today's march is one in a series of protests organisedby the Irish National Teacher's Organisation, culminating in a national rally in Dublin on December 6."
As a Fine Gael newspaper - editorials endlessly calling for cuts in 'bloated public sector', the absence of enthusiasm for one of the biggest marches seen in Ireland for some time is normal.
Deafening silence so far at Irish Times online where they are happy to report instead that FG are saying job cuts will be necessary in health.