New Book - Anthony McIntyre "Good Friday, The Death of Irish Republicanism"

by LSR Thu Mar 13, 2008 18:55

If those who disagree with the good friday agreement believe republicanism is dead or dying it is because of their own inaction (and i dont just mean militarily) Generally in long struggles it is those who go the distance who determine the course of that struggle. The older republicans of Adams and McGuiness' generation who have gone against them have simply become voice boxes for rejectionism and have never intiated any meaningful attempt to reclaim the mantel of republicanism. They wouldnt know what to do with it if they did.

Republicanism is dead or dying, its simply adapted as opposes to the permanent arrested development some anti gfa republicans if not most or all believe it should be

by Bron-terre O'Neil - none Thu Mar 13, 2008 19:21

This is the group that was run by FBI/MI5 through the (exposed) David Rupert along with two of the individual mentioned in this press release. Has Mackers lost the plot?

by S.... Thu Mar 13, 2008 19:27

Provisional Republicanism died chiefly because the Brits were able to place informers in and around the leadership and control the direction of the Movement.
Time will tell just how deep that infiltration was and certain people will have serious questions to answer.

by F. McC Thu Mar 13, 2008 22:27

McIntyres's Ph.D dissertation, on the Provisional IRA struggle against the British state, was supervised by the neo-conservative Unionist, Lord Bew of Donegore. The book should be interesting.

by normal bloke Thu Mar 13, 2008 22:55

It died in 1798.

by The Insider Fri Mar 14, 2008 08:43

"Irish Republican Deirdre Fennessy of Chicago". Chicago?

Says it all really.

by normal bloke Fri Mar 14, 2008 18:50

Robert (Bobby) Duddy, of Derry, who we'll be reading a lot about this weekend.

by Séamus Fri Mar 14, 2008 18:55

A book by Anthony MacIntyre with a photo of Gerry Adams on the cover. And who says this man has a personal obsession?

by Steve Sat Mar 15, 2008 09:51

I spoke to a man in Dublin who could remember the bombings in 1974.
I was flicking through a book in the Irish History section of Easons the other day and I bumped into him
He said he saw a young woman with her head blown off, body parts all over the street and blood everywhere.
The worst thing was the smell of burnt flesh. He says he can't stand to eat pork.
I'm quite sure things were far worse in Belfast.
You can talk all you bloody want about the glorious struggle for Irish freedom but who paid the price?
Completely innocent people killed by power mad lunatics on both sides who couldn't give a crap about ordinary people who they killed going about their daily lives and business bothering nobody.

by cropbeye Sat Mar 15, 2008 13:52 Cork City (Northside)

While I aggree with McIntrye that the general development since 1998

has been a set back for Republicanism there are parts of his writings

and some of the company he keeps that deserves criticism.

From what I believe he now colcludes that nothing at all was achieved through a generation

of struggle.

First of all people in Nationalist areas were being accustomed to feeling defeated in a long term

conditioning before the seventies and their heads were down. Nowadays people have their heads up

and know they will never again go back to the subservience of the past , I know that this is a bit

abstract and difficult to measure but signigicant all the same.

Secondly in terms of some of the company he keeps they are doing some of the British Militarys

work for them. This "Everyone in the Provos are spies" mantra being whispered about is completly

counterproductive to Republicanism. The Military establishment in Britain want paranioa to prevail

and for Republicans to be at each others throats.

Current pessamism in Republicanism will pass but not by overstating theroies of the conspiracy

kind or demonising people who need to be tackled with cogent arguments.

by Barry - 32 csm Tue Mar 18, 2008 04:44

Nationalists in the past kept their heads down because theyd been beaten and they knew it . Today they run about confidently in the false belief theyve acheived something . However embarassing mass delusion is nothing to be proud of .
Another book has been released in recent days by Johnathon Powell , Tony Blairs cheif aide in which he admits IRA army council statemnts were drafted by Tony Blair in front of Adams at Chequers and he himself regulalrly wrote Sinn Fein press releases . Add to this the fact that Ian Paisley effectively drafted their Ard Feis motion on British policing , George Mitchell drafted their terms of surrender which they sold as republican strategy whilst prior to that John Humes post nationalist analysis which demanded the Irish people relinquish all claims to their own national territory beacme their own strategy , one which the confident nationalist people you point to still arent allowed to read . Confidence based upon a lie , on top of a lie , on top of a parcel of lies is a completely false confidence . Its much more embarassing and undignified than what went on before .

If Downing street , the White House and Ian Paisley are drafting the nationalist peoples strategic political positions and determining their political strategies and positions for them then they are without doubt more subservient than ever . I cant think of anything more subservient , cowed and beaten than being in such a degenerate and defeated political position . With the Brits and the white house actually writing their posiiton and strategy for them Adams and McGuinness , indeed the entire provo leadership who sold Downing streets and the White Houses political vision of Irelands future as provo strategy were acting only as direct agents of influnce amongts the Irish people . The strategy they sold was the imperilaists strategy . The imperialists wrote their statements for them , wrote their position for them and they sold it . Thats the work of agents , thats the role they adopted . Theres no other rational way of looking at it .

by WT Tue Mar 18, 2008 14:30

Adams and The Deputy have surely left their grass roots feeling like those gullible people who have been told that they have won some lottery but that they had to send money off in order to release their winnings.
$F have gained nothing having given everything and are now being punished for their secret wheelings and dealings by constant revelations from the Brits about just what went on during the so called negotiations and about the level of infiltration by MI5.
This has left the $hinners trying to win back some credibility by supposedly rediscovering that people died for Irish Freedom and thus we have the charade of commemorating Maireid Farrell and attending the Dark's funeral.
You can fool most of the $hinners all of the time by all accounts.

by Amused Tue Mar 18, 2008 14:46

Barry and WT are right. It would be far better to keep fighting an unwinnable war, and to have left people rotting in jail for many more years. Can we please start it all up again? I would invite them to get going, but then it is perhaps easier to fight a war with a keyboard than an armalite.

by WT Tue Mar 18, 2008 16:59

And where, Amused have I said that we should return to fighting an 'Unwinnable War'? I was pointing out the reality that while Adams and the Deputy were telling gullible grass roots and supporters that the 'War had taken a new direction and that the aims and objectives of those who had given their lives were within reach, the fact was that the Brits were controlling the Provos from within and had pushed the $hinners into a cul-de-sac from which there was no way out except to cooperate in the dismantlement of Republicanism.
Perhaps Amused could enlighten us as to what The Provos have actually achieved from their War and their Peace instead of churning out the tired old party line?

by amused Tue Mar 18, 2008 18:33

Well, I'm not a shinner, so it ill behoves me to say what 'the war' gained. I think it was futile from the get go, and only a tube post 1972 could have imagined otherwise. But I do think it positive that those who thought otherwise are no longer in prison. It is positive that this is not 1968, that we do not have the B Specials, gerrymandering, overt discrimination. Things look pretty cool around here to me - try out the new Victoria Square shopping centre. A good time can be had there.

Well, WT, if you oppose a resumption of military struggle, what do you advcocate? or, pardon the pun, is sniping all you're good for?

by ALAN MAC Tue Mar 18, 2008 19:04

I thought Republicanism is the alternative. Keep in mind teh Republican Movment put forward EIRE NUA a PEACE plan as early as 1972. EIRE NUA and SAOL NUA are Republican politics. You dont walk away from Republican politics when the war ends or stalls or whatever , if you are/were a Republican in the first place.

http://www.rsf.ie/eirenua.htm

http://www.rsf.ie/saolnua.htm

Either your are for the status quo are arent.

by Barry - 32 csm Tue Mar 18, 2008 20:37

a troll . best ignored . Debate is best employed with serious posters . Anyone who cant see an alternative in NOT having your nations enemy writing your statements and press releases for you isnt worth discussing the subject with .

by PA Tue Mar 18, 2008 21:32

I haven't read the book , but I'd be very interested in seeing the passages described.

Can you give page numbers and quotations?

I believe that the newspapers are serialising the book, so on the basis that they will pick the most sensational bits, you should be able to find a section that you can copy and paste.

I've looked but I can't find the pieces that you refer to about British people writing Sinn Fein statements.

A summing up of the main points in the news reports so far can be found here: http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5h9MFqgvk1KsXY5H...y0oKA

They have not reported any of what you claimed. Hopefully you can put that right by giving the page numbers and exact words used.

by Sharon . - Individual . Tue Mar 18, 2008 22:22

.....told by a new voice ?

Hi !

It seems that both the DUP and Westminster had more of an input to the PSF 'peace policy' than has been properly highlighted up until now -

"The governments also proposed a form of words for a statement from the (P)IRA.... "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/408...7.stm

More at this link -
Mr Adams "...claimed that in advance of his party's executive two weeks ago the DUP had been given the text of a motion about policing that Mr Adams would put to that meeting.. "
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0112/policing.html

And here -
"...the draft of a PIRA statement on decommissioning was handed over to Downing Street for their approval but was rejected by Blair and his crew and returned to the Provos.. "
http://admin2.7.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=6981&start=...ments

Sharon.

by amused Wed Mar 19, 2008 06:27

booo to you too barry. I don't see 'england' as an enemy, you see - they are my friends. I don't give a rat's arse about 'nationhood.' like most Irish people, I am indifferent to your goals (why should I care about a united Ireland?) and am opposed to your means (your goals aren't worth the sacrifice involved in trying to get them!) I guess that means you'll have to shoot me too. I hear keyboards and barstools are lethal these days.

by WT Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:56

I only just got to read Amused's reply to my post as I don't sit at a keyboard typing all day unlike this Amused person who seems to be up at 6 in the morning trolling away at his or her keyboard.
The only alternative way forward [ and I put this to the non-trolls ] is for all the various threads of Republicanism to unite even some of those who will eventually break away from PSF as things get worse, for example the Brits withdrawing funding for all those schemes which keep many onside and silent.
It is time to call an end to violence as a means to achieving our objectives and begin by working for the people on the ground. A beginning could be made in uniting the people to remove the scourge of drug dealing and the various scumbags who terrorize all our estates as the PSNI don't seem to have had any manners put into them.
I am not a politician but I see the only way forward as being through unity and a leadership which is made to answer to the grass roots for it's decisions.

by WT Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:54

In relation to the Brits writing the $hinner's press statements etc. It's appears that Adams and the Deputy were going overboard in their obsequious dealings with the British Government.
Adams making jokes about Political Status and not recognizing the courts when talking to Blair about the cash for questions situation. Belittling the struggle for Political Status and the Hunger Strikers to a man who admittedly admired Thatcher is stooping to a new low, even to try and get a laugh at the expense of everyone who refused to recognize the Brits courts over the years thus willingly adding years to their sentence was bad enough.
Of course The Deputy also got into the act by claiming that The Bloody Sunday Inquiry was a waste of time as an apology would have sufficed. I wonder what the families think of that remark.
It makes you wonder just what kind of Backstabbing was going on with the Brits.

by Barry - 32 csm Wed Mar 19, 2008 19:24

wt wrote

"" It is time to call an end to violence as a means to achieving our objectives and begin by working for the people on the ground. A beginning could be made in uniting the people to remove the scourge of drug dealing and the various scumbags who terrorize all our estates as the PSNI don't seem to have had any manners put into them.""

drug dealers are routinely armed and very well organised . Id like to hear your opinions on how this could be done non violently . In fact I wouldnt , because it couldnt be done non violently . I suggest you go away and think about that one again .
And of you think Britian will ever react non violently to any means to acheive a united Ireland you are also mistaken . They will use violence in order to suppress democracy on this island if they so choose . And of they face no resistance they will simply succeed by using violence , threats and intimidation . Whether from their unionist or provo allies . That " bulwark " that OCaoilain and Bertie Ahern are happy to see maintained in the background hasnt gone away . Its there to be used against the Irish people and nobody else .

by WT Wed Mar 19, 2008 20:31

Is that why the Dissident Republicans have done nothing to curb the drug dealing and antisocial behaviour in our communities? Because they are routinely armed and very well organized we'll ignore them and fight the Brits.
Do you honestly believe that is what the people of the Falls and the Bogside want?

by Markievicz - none Wed Apr 09, 2008 05:49

F. McC wrote: "McIntyres's Ph.D dissertation, on the Provisional IRA struggle against the British state, was supervised by the neo-conservative Unionist, Lord Bew of Donegore. The book should be interesting."

Some of Gerry Adams' press statements were written by Tony Blair. I'd be much more worried about that than who superivsed MacIntyre's PhD. PhD supervisers, by the way, are often allocated to people; but you choose who writes your press statements.

Of course, since Gerry was signing up to help Britain rule the six counties indefinitely, it did make sense to let his new boss write the press statements.

by Observer Wed Aug 13, 2008 13:18

McIntyre blog has an interesting account of the left and reviews on his book.