Celtic Wolves Court Update

by squid - limerickblogger.org Thu Dec 06, 2007 04:48

Just a point of detail. it was two people convicted during the last court sitting in relation to this matter and not three

Before the court were five people last time, three of whom were foreign nationals. the foreign nationals were acquitted, while the other two were handed down two month prison sentences which are the subject of appeal.

by bej Thu Dec 06, 2007 09:08

'a charge of distributing threatening and abusive material' - in the wicklow mountains?
distributing to whom? - the squirrels?
We may not agree with it but where should we draw the line for free speech? This isn't Germany or Israel.
Threatening or abusive material (in the opinion of a garda) covers a multitude. In fact it covers just about anything that happens to be the wrong colour at a particular time.

by acid Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:04

Racism IS illegal in this country. If the articles in question carried racist views or slogans then a criminal offense has been made, regardless of how minor it may seem.

by A10 Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:27

Nor is holding racist views or righ twing views either.Nor is it illegal to display any 3rd reich symbols or other rightwing symbols,or confederate flags in public or private places.
Careful,next time the Gardai could arrest you for having litature likely to cause offence to the public because it is left wing.

by Coilín Thu Dec 06, 2007 13:27

Under what act was Cummins convicted? Where can I read the text of this law?

Did the articles in question carry racist views or slogans? If so, why did the judge refuse to read them? Do I understand that the articles in question were flags with symbols but no text on them? Or has the AFA comrade omitted important detail?

What evidence was presented in court to demonstrate that the Celtic Wolves is a racist organisation and that Cummins is a member? For example, did the prosecution present the group's articles of association? Any membership documents or other documentation that Cummins might be a signatory to racist threats or abuses?

Does Cummins have any plans to appeal to the Supreme Court to have the judgement overturned on the basis that it infringes his freedom of expression?

The Constitution, Bunreacht na hÉireann makes three specific exceptions to freedom of expression: blasphemy, sedition and indecency, as follows:
"Article 40
6. 1° The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:
i. The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.
The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.
The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law."
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?docID=243

Does racism count as any of these three things?
blasphemy: impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.
sedition: incitement of discontent or rebellion against a government.
indecency: impropriety or immodesty / obscenity or indelicacy.

Delighted to find myself agreeing with A10 for once. Unless key details have been omitted or misrepresented, I think it is a great mistake to cheer this judgement, which could be used as a precedent to punish and persecute comrades protesting at Shannon, Baldonnel, etc.

Enough police interference in peaceful political debate!

Best,
Coilín.

by Irish Anti Facist Thu Dec 06, 2007 13:47

Dear Colin,
Does this answer your question:

Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act, 1989
Interpretation:
"hatred" means hatred against a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation;

Also....
Section 2.—
(1) It shall be an offence for a person—
( a ) to publish or distribute written material

No free speech for facists.

by Bej Thu Dec 06, 2007 13:49

"Under what act was Cummins convicted? Where can I read the text of this law?"
- why its our old friend The Public Order Act

7.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to distribute or display any writing, sign or visible representation which is threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec...994s7

by P Shelley Thu Dec 06, 2007 14:08

I don't think we on the left should be cheerleading the invoking of the powers of the state against anyone, especially when these powers can be used against us. However we should reserve the right to administer our own revolutionary justice when it comes to the fash!

by Bej Thu Dec 06, 2007 14:11

Among the many definitions of -

Abusive: Using or containing insulting or coarse language
Threatening: To be a source of danger to; menace.
Insulting: To treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness.
Obscene: Offensive to accepted standards of decency or modesty

These are not legal definitions. They don't have to be. The garda (or person of authority??) only has to believe that the offence complies with any or all of his/her definitions.

You will notice that the judge was fairly speedy in dealing with this case. I'm sure he knows that this Law
is a quagmire if anybody ever decides to challenge it per se. It is used almost exclusively against
people of limited financial means who have not the wherewithal to challenge it..

http://www.iccl.ie/DB_Data/press/PublicOrderPeaderOGrad...6.htm

by DK Thu Dec 06, 2007 14:23

Link
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/60009?userlanguage=ga&s...=true

by Mike - Judean Popular Peoples Front Thu Dec 06, 2007 18:48

"I don't think we on the left should be cheerleading the invoking of the powers of the state against anyone"

So you dont thinjk its a good thing that the state and the cops are (for once) doing the job they should be doing ?

And you dont think that dealing with "the fash" is a job for the police but should be left to "private enterprise" ??

What an odd- crop of left wingers we have this year !

While most people on the left quite justifiably nurture a healthy suspicion and disregard for the powers that be cant we give them the odd bit of credit once in a while on the rare occasion when they actually do the right thing ?

by RS Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:20

The state could very easily try the exact same thing against the left and as such, it shouldn't be cheerleaded by the left. As nice as it is to see these bastards get caught, it is still not the job of the state to arrest fascists. This very same state would have no issue releasing the fascist bootboys onto the streets if it was seen necessary. The task of preventing the rise of fascism lies squarely at the foot of the workers' movement, communities, immigrant organisations and the youth, not with the cops.

by Frank Mitchell Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:38

It is heart warming to see the concern for the civil rights of fascists and A.F.A. should be strongly condemned for forcing so many liberals to get their knickers in a twist. No really I mean it.

Seriously, a proper reading of the A.F.A. piece shows that the arrest and charging of this loser brigade was not cheer leaded by anti fascists. Instead, the proper tone of ridicule was adopted , and this does make an important point about the master race .
Fascist groups should never be under estimated , but they should not be over estimated either. Celtic Wolves are idiots, internet buddies with the occasional barbecue or slumber party as active service. Are they dangerous ? Yes, but only with a small d. If somebody with half a brain emerged on the Irish right the Wolves could be recruited into a more active role, but that person does not exist and probably never will. A bigger risk is that while under the influence of alcohol they could get brave and have a go at a soft target , and could seriously injure somebody, most likely a woman or a child. Idiots always, but drunken idiots in a pack they could still do some harm. It is important that they are not allowed to recruit and build their confidance

The role played by A.F.A. in the regular physical confrontations and now the piss taking has been important. A number of former Celtic Wolves have publically "surrendered " and quit due to A.F.A. and also due to the cowardly nature of their fellow jack- booters exposed by A.F.A. During physical confrontations the Wolves have always lost, and on each occasion the aryan warriors have always split up, ran away and abandoned their brothers in arms. A.F.A. has been in contacted by and has interviewed former Wolves who quit in disgust . They always complain about being abandoned by their "comrades". One formerly enthusiastic new recruit even started crying as he realised his leader -ship had driven away as he was left on his lonesome.

Despite the fierce image portrayed on the internet , aimed at impressing the big boys in international fascism, the Wolves have shown they can't even organise a piss up in a woodland (or a Dublin pub). Their website had contained a report on the summer camp, portraying it as a success, and receiving congrats from their international brothers. While anti fascists laughed at the fact that the Wolves were being congragulated for doing exactly what any bunch of teenage drinkers could do on a weekend , that wasn't even the full story. Now that the full facts have emerged the true idiocy of the master race is revealed. In court, the Fash hardly shone as committed warriors of a world changing ideology . Absolutely no support was shown by their comrades , and even those directly involved didn't back up each other. Their obvious embarrasment is shown by the fact that all references to the events have been removed from their site (And only days ago they were calling for support for their "political prisoners"). And remember, when confronted last year by A.F.A. at a Wolves meeting , they meekly posed for photos and revealed personal details .

This all sends out a powerful message to wannabe Aryan warriors. You are a loser, stay at home and play on the computer,but don't mix with other losers . If you do... we all get to laugh at you. And worse.

by Don Sun Dec 09, 2007 13:36

These lads are harmless. How are camp outs going to bring back the third reich? They should bother waste state(the peoples) money on this shite. I suggest they shoukd be given library cards and made read The Apocryphon of John.

"The man and woman were too terrified to renounce Yaldabaoth,
Who showed his ignorance to his angels
And he cast both of them out of paradise
Dressing them in heavy darkness"

by pete Sun Dec 09, 2007 23:34

this whole article reads like tabloid thrash. If freedom of speech is to be denied, then whats the whole point in talking about equality. why isn't the government stopping Easons or any of the book stores from selling Mein Kamp. pure hypocracy, and worse, the left are now endorsing the laws which they claim to despise.

by Jack - None Thu Dec 13, 2007 13:10

That's it, I'm pulling out. No-one came down to the court to support me and I could have been attacked and injured. I am leaving the scene and I would appreciate if you would take my pictures down from your websites.

by pat c Thu Dec 13, 2007 13:45

Wouldn't be suprised if that was the real Jack, same way that Karl dropped out after the O'Connell Street Races*. He certainly was left on his own in court, the master race hordes were missing those days. Perhaps they were all running away, they are good at that.

*announcement
by Karl Tue Jun 06, 2006 19:27
All links with 'white pride' movements/orgs, etc have been cut.

I AM OUT. FINISHED. DONE WITH IT.